Ep. 24 - Beyond Live

0:10I won't go down with it I won't go back yet I'll find a way, yeah.

1:02And when your face is safe, it's fine. We all don't feel the same. We all laugh in the rain. We all go on and say that. With. The.

1:58The Grassy Knoll. Well, that must have been a long version of the intro song, a little hiccup there. Oh yeah, it's only two minutes. No, Jim notified me of that black talk hiccup. So anyway, it's not a big deal. And for those who didn't notice it anyway, who cares? But this is Beyond the Grassy Knoll. And with us is somebody who was on the old show. And that's the informer, the I-Man, same person. who I sought out because as I was going through this somewhat seven, eight-year-long epiphany about the way things really are, it led me to him for something that I suspected, but that he confirmed that he's documented. So, Iman, thanks a lot for coming back. It's good to hear from you again. Yep.

2:43You'll agree with that. That's good. Okay, we're off to a good start. Yep. I want to tell folks to give us a little time to lay some things out before you call, but by all means your calls are welcome. And you can call us toll free at 888-333-9009. You can also send an email to visigoth at hotmail.com or visigoth at verizon.net. And if you're on an IM service and it happens to be MSN, go to Visigoth. Those are the details. We'll get back to things later on. I want to let you know also whether you hear this now or whether you hear this when it's archived, you can go to the website informerarchives.com.

3:32You will find a link for the informer, probably all of which we speak today, you can find in some form on that website. And also there's another individual, I'm sure IMAN would agree, by the name of James Montgomery, who has companion work to what IMAN has done. That's informerarchives.com that would stand for Against the Grain. informerarchives.com. All right. You know, I have the original show we did, and it's in my archived audio on beyondthegrassyknoll.com. So folks can go there and listen to it. We are not going to explain everything that we explained a long time ago, but that would be a foundational show, which this is not going to be, though there will be new listeners.

4:13But when I came to you, I had a sneaking suspicion that the joke has been on us ever since, I guess, You know, the beginning, after the war was over, whatever that was about, the Revolutionary War we're talking about. So, Wyatt, can you pick us up? We have a certain kind of attitude about our founding fathers, and it's a real paternal one, almost semi-deific, but can you tell us really what was going on when they got together to write the Kahn Institution?

4:48Well, what they did, you got to go back to before the Constitution, really, and you got to go back before 1776, and it was at that time that the king was telling the people over here, well, not really the people, he gave the people free reign, but he didn't give the government, he didn't give up the land, he didn't give up anything, he still had his colony, And well, they're called plantation. And they were organizations by the king. And he owned them. And there was nothing that anybody could do about it. So when the founding fathers started using their Massachusetts Bay note, which was the only paper in history that was non-inflatable.

5:34What that means is that they had the necessary, I guess, metals to back up whatever currency they issued. But no, it wasn't really metals. In fact, I put it in my book, The New History of America, and I put a copy of it in the back. And the staples that they used was not gold and silver. It was sheep's wool, leather, and stuff that people used at that time. But don't you say in that book as well, I'm in, and I stand corrected. I said, but you've also written in that book that those what we talk about the truth, the true value, right? The true wealth of this world is what we were given. Yes.

6:15That metal, uh, you know, both gold and silver came in later on and supposedly was, yeah, it worked out okay. But in the, in the early days, and you're talking about now with the Massachusetts Bay colony, right? They, it was backed by something of a tangible worth substance. Yeah, right. And anything doing with livestock and sheep's wool, and leather and corn. It's even listed right on the Massachusetts Bay note of what it's backing. Now who necessarily, and I don't want to get too much into the specifics of the banking situation, but I mean that would necessarily mean then that whoever is issuing this currency were also the holders perhaps of that which was deemed. Yes.

6:59In other words, if you go back into the Bible when The Lord came down and said to Peter, when Peter fished that coin out of the mouth of the fish, and he says, pay to Caesar what is Caesar's. And people are kind of fuzzy on that, but what is on the coin that he pulled out was the picture of Caesar. The same thing happened in the United States.

7:29when the corporation was formed, they issued the money because they issued the money and had imprinted on it the United States of America, it doesn't matter, and a picture of Washington on the quarter and so on, Lincoln on the penny and all that. That alone is why they can go back to the Bible and says, give unto the United States what is the United States. So when everybody uses the money, thinking that it's their money, it's not their money, it's the issuer. And the same thing with the Federal Reserve.

8:10When they issue the Federal Reserve notes, they actually put a lien on that note the minute it is issued, and they can recall it any time they wish. I'm going to ask you if it's okay that what you gave me, you were the source, those two interesting letters about the nature of a Federal Reserve Note, would it be okay if I released them to anyone who wanted them? Sure. All right. Because it tells you exactly what an FRN, a Federal Reserve Note is, and it's not a dollar. No. No, definitely not a dollar. Can we call it a promissory note? It is a promissory note, and it's a debt obligation, which is an IOU. So you're dealing with IOUs. Let's say I owed you $10,000.

8:54And I gave you a note for $10,000. That means that I owe you $10,000. I didn't give you a $10,000. I just gave you a note. And now you take that note and you give it to somebody else. Who owns that note? Did you? The person that gave it? I'm going to say the man that gave it to that other party? The other party comes back and says, well, you gave it to me. It must be yours. Uh-uh. I gave it to you. And it's a promissory no. Therefore, it hasn't been lawfully or legally validated. All right.

9:38So now this goes on and has gone on for almost a century. Oh, yeah. And the thing is, everything's fine until they call in the debt. Is that correct? Right. And what they can do, the Federal Reserve does do that because of the private collection agency called the IRS, which is controlled by the governor of the International Monetary Fund, who happens to be Henry Paulson, who happens to be the so-called Secretary of the Treasury. But they never said Secretary of the Treasury of the United States because it doesn't exist. It was abolished in the year 1921 by the Act of 1920. There was an act that did that.

10:19And all those people who were at that time involved with the IRS, whether they be agents or clerks or the heads or whatever, they formed a new organization, and it's totally separate from the government, and it's called the General Accounting Office. And if you go and you pull all that up, and on ATG Press, if they go to going after the wrong person or going after the wrong people, that will tell you in spades with all the documentation to prove what I just said. And a lot of people say, well, it's the federal government, it's mine, and yada, yada, yada. Well, it's not.

11:04Because does anybody ever sit down and look at the term federal and what it really means? I would say no. So what I did was I went to the February, I went to the Webster's 1828 dictionary and under federal it says, a league applied perhaps to English pertaining to a league or contract derived from an agreement or covenant between parties, particularly between nations. So the real meaning of federal means a contract or agreement has nothing to do with a particular type of government, although it was formed by that contract.

11:46Now, right now it says the IRS is a private agency and it says you federal, now I'm going to put federal wherever I mean contract. You federal with IRS when filing any form under perjury, W-4, 1040, any IRS form. Your signature compels you to federal that you owe an obligation to the parties as listed above. Now, it says in Webster's, consisting of a contract between parties, particularly in chief between states or nations.

12:31No one is mentioned here, so you don't have a contract with the state. Are you saying no individuals or citizens are being mentioned? We're talking about the entities known as states and federal government and federal government. Yeah. So the nation, um, that's a kind of a misnomer because America is the nation. The United States is not. All right. And even in the Paddleford case and it said, but indeed no private person has a right to complain and by suit in court on the ground of a breach of the constitution, the constitution is a contract, the constitution that is true as is a compact, but he, meaning you, the American people, is not a party to it. The states are the parties to it.

13:16And they may complain if they are entitled to redress or they may waive the right to complain. Now you know why Schultz cannot get redressed and nobody can get redressed because they're not a party to the Constitution. All right. So let me say this. Citizens are not party to the compact known, commercial compact known, as the Constitution. Right. When you said that they can seek redress, the they means the states. Yes, the states. Uh-huh. All right.

13:50And that's why, that we've heard for a long, long time, until I stopped listening, I'm sure they're still saying it, people were scratching their heads and getting mad at judges, federal judges, because they were telling people who would defend themselves that they could not bring the Constitution into the court. So they thought the judges we're becoming more and more fascist, but in effect they were doing exactly what the Constitution calls them to do. That's right. And because all the courts are equity courts under Admiralty Maritime Law of Commerce, that's why the Constitution has no business being in there. When I had to company, when they fired me for not failing W-4, I took them to court And I went all the way up to the Supreme Court of the state.

14:36And then I went into the federal district court. And that was the same thing. And, you know, I was sort of scratching my head. But then again, I wasn't. But I was wondering because I had put some cases in that mentioned about the rule of law and everything. And it went right over their heads. And they denied everything that I put in there.

15:02When I went to a small court, a superior court, where the company took me for doing all this to them, the first thing the judge said after a whole bunch of rigmarole, he says, well, this is an equity court. And I write it up and says, OK, show me the contract. Do you know that that judge couldn't show me a contract and he was hemming and hauling around and he says, I'll postpone this for 30 days and we'll come back and revisit it.

15:38And I come back and I revisited it with him and I said, well, did you find the contract between me and the company that put me in equity? He says, no, but that's immaterial and I'm going to make a ruling and it was for the company. Because see the company was a corporation that was chartered by the state. I wasn't chartered by the state to do anything. So therefore I had no standing and even to defend myself when it was a equitable contract between the state and the corporation that fired me and I had nothing.

16:24If I could to take you back to why in the world the founding fathers would concoct the Constitution. First of all, were they not supposed to do, shall we say, a ratchet job on the Articles of the Confederation and suddenly it turned into the creation of the Constitution? Go ahead. Exactly, because what they did, and that's what I was going to mention that right before you did, but you beat me to it, the founding fathers had a lot of money. They were rich. They were aristocracy. And they could care less about the average man.

16:59You know, they really were that bad and they made a deal with the king because the king says, look, if you don't do things my way, I'm going to seize all your holdings over here in the mother country and I'm going to put a blockade against America and you won't see the light of day until you're dead. Now also, in other words, We had no army. We had no Navy. So how are we going to stop a blockade? All right, the United States blockaded Cuba, right? That worked.

17:37Well, how are we going to stop the shipping from coming in to bringing in the foodstuffs and the other stuff that the mother country had that we didn't have here yet, but they were building toward it? All right, two things let me ask you at this point. There was also a double-edged sword in this also, because didn't some of our, or I don't know what percentage they are, of the Founding Fathers also have business interests still in England? Oh, they all did. They all did. And that was also threatened too, was it not? Oh, yeah. And in fact, even Patrick Henry knew, and he was the Anti-Federalist, because he said there was nothing wrong with the Confederation. We were doing so good that that's why the King called the Treaty of Peace, but if you read the Treaty of Peace, he is the Archtreasurer of the United States.

18:30It says so, right in the Treaty of Peace. All right, now also, what you spoke of, I mean, obviously, the 13 East States, or what were colonies, did have armies, but they did not have a big standing federal army after the fact, is that correct? That's right, yeah. Most everybody went back home and just took care of business again. Uh-huh, yeah. Now, what happened in the war, is in no uncertain terms the 1783 was the springboard to the Constitution because the King had to establish his plantation and he did so by cutting a deal and the founding fathers says okay we'll do what you want and yada yada yada and the most of them were attorneys and they came from the middle temple of the Knights Templar who was still controlling over here in America.

19:31And what happened was that the founding fathers caved in and said, OK, we'll create a sub-corporation of the British Empire. And of course, the king says no. My corporations are still in existence. You are going to be a subsidiary of the rest of the plantations in here, which was all the states. All the states were plantations. This is a bit tongue-in-cheek, by the way, but when you look at a state, when you look at a state, I mean, does that have anything to do with the word estate? Yes, it does. It does.

20:16Hence plantation, hence estate, yep. Right. And so actually the founding fathers created everything in secrecy. The American public was not involved and a lot of the anti-federalist papers and the people there were complaining that they had no say, nothing. Even in the states when they were originally put in, which I do have the first constitution in New Jersey, and it says right in the bottom of the footnote, no Uh, no, uh, inhabitants of the state ever ratified the constitution. It was just done. I called the secretary of state and I pinned her down or him.

21:00It was a him in New Jersey. And, um, he says, oh, when I asked him that question, I says, well, who incorporated it? He says, what do you mean corporation? I said, look at your seal. It says incorporated, doesn't it? And he caught a hamden on, and finally he had to admit, yeah. I says, well, who incorporated it? Who were the parties that incorporated it? Was it any of the people? He said, no, they just did it out of their whim. All right. And so really the founding fathers were, I call them founding fathers. They weren't after the good graces of the people and to make them whole. They were already free. from the king.

21:43He says, when he absolved everything and turned it over, he says, I'll give you the people, they will be free, but nothing else will be. I will still own all the mineral rights. And he who owns the mineral rights of any land has their ownership complete of that land because he can go in, tear down a 50-story skyscraper to get at the minerals underneath of it if he had to. Well, you know who bears this out too. Do you remember, by the way, an individual out there who spoke to this quite a bit? David Johnson? No.

22:15Okay, he was on to explain just that the original land grants, and he was involved with title searches and such with real estate, and if you can go back, especially this is big on the eastern seaboard as you well know because you're talking about the first settlements, and if you have to trace it back to the original land patents, and it still comes into play, the players are still the UK, uh... and also the netherlands in fact in new jersey the last of that group disbanded about six years ago and it was written up in the trenton times in the trentonian in the philadelphia paper in new york paper the original owners of west jersey there was a west jersey and a new jersey they finally capitulated and gave up their to govern West Jersey.

23:15Well, the Swedish crown originally had West Jersey, the Dutch had East. Yes. And then England took it all over. Yeah. And like Pennsylvania was under William Penn, and he was given the Grand Grant. In fact, Washington in about 1750, he was one of the biggest land sellers of real estate for the king in this country. People don't realize that. Well, and this is a throwout question, but it's got to be answered, and I would have you do it. The reason why we believe what we do is because we've been propagandized with our own history. It's a myth. Yes. The Constitution's a myth.

24:01Like I read in here on Federal to you, what it meant. And it started way back when, and they figured that the only way they could cajole the people was to write the federalist papers under pen names and try to get the people to OK what they were doing. All right. And it was insidious. It was it was a fraud from the very beginning. And like a lot of people would say, well, my constitutional rights and all this. Well, this constitution never gave any rights. It was a contract with the king on how they would operate that corporation. That's it.

24:41And the Bill of Rights was put in that did not pertain to anybody in the states at all. It was strictly for those people in Washington, D.C. Who are represented, right? Yeah, or represented. It was Congress assembled. And the celebrated case is 1822 of John Barron. And anybody can pick up the John Barron case and read that. And it will tell you the Supreme Court come right out and tell the people, hey, look, guys, we're going through every amendment and we're going to show you why it doesn't apply to you.

25:19And that's why John Barron lost the bat, lost the case in Baltimore when they screwed with his wharf and his fishing and everything. And they decimated the land and he sued them. And they said he had no right to sue him because he was from Maryland. He was a citizen of Maryland and he was not, uh, a party to the constitution. Therefore none of the bill of rights applied to him. He went under the fifth amendment, uh, uh, taking of property, uh, not the fifth, but he went under the taking of property and everything and he sued the state and he couldn't do it. He lost.

26:02Now the John Baron case has never been overturned. And the last time it was used in the year 2000. And I have a running history of every case that used John Barron in it. And whoever used the John Barron case, usually the plaintiff of the state or something to do with it, they won. And the defendant always lost. Let me stop you right there. You're listening to BeyondTheGrassyAndAll.com. We have with us today the informer, also known as the I-Man. And we're not talking about I-mas. And the website.

26:37where you can read, you know, just voluminous articles about the nature of what we're talking about today can be found there. Now also, you have three books out there. I have them all. Would you just recount what those titles are to what specificities they address and how people can obtain them? Okay. All the books can be obtained if they go to the ATG press at the bottom. And it gives the prices and where to send the U.S. Postal Money Order completely blank to. And which one are you?

27:17It's the first book I wrote in 1990 that deals with a lot of what I told you here, definitions that will kill you, the IRS, how the code is written, Then the New History of America is 1996, brings everything sort of up to date. It doesn't particularly harp on the IRS like the Which One Are You does. But it goes into the history of why we are where we're at, what we just talked about. And then the other one is The Big Lie Three. That are the only three books. The rest are smaller books.

28:02uh... cheaper in value you know five seven eight four dollars fifteen dollars whatever uh... but they're they're the the the three main ones are uh... the big lie three uh... there's also a big lie but the big lie three the new history of america and which one are you this is not fair to ask is just like what what which one of your children do you like the best but i'm gonna ask it anyway you got a favorite book in there Well, I don't know. It's hard. If someone wants to know just about the IRS and all the shenanigans that they're pulled, it doesn't go in and tell you that they're private because it was written in 1990.

28:45But anybody having problems with that, you would use that book. For other things like why the driver's license and why property, and taxes, why you pay the property taxes, and all this is in the new history of America. And the big lie three is all the lies that were told to everybody since day one, since they were born. And it was actually between Dave DeRemer and me. And we had many phone conversations where he taped everything. And then we put it out into book form. OK. Would I be right in saying that if one wanted just an overview and an original step into the looking glass about the way things really are, that that would be the new history of America?

29:35Yeah, the new history of America and the big lights for either really, you know, pretty close. But the new history of America is the one that is, I would say, number one. All right. Before you go any further, too, I want to let folks know if you do want to call in, you can do so on a toll free, which is 888-333-9009. You can IM if you got MSN to Visigoth, and you can send emails right now if you want to to visigoth at hotmail.com or visigoth at verizon.net. And that information is also on my website that if you want to get that, if you've lost it, you can recoup what I've just said. I don't know if you want to go anywhere where I might have stopped you from going just before we did some business.

30:20If not, I think what this email that I got a couple of days ago lays out as far as selling and questions. It's something that will take us where we want to go. So is there anything unfinished that you wanted to add before we broke for that little problem? No, not what we were just talking about. It's just that it's a myth that the founding fathers were great people that founded a country that the people could be free in and all. It was just the opposite. OK. Well, here we go, because this will address it too. and I would rather have the individual's words used in this. What was really being set up in the founding of America? Was it an economic endeavor for the generation of greater wealth for the insiders?

31:05We'll take it that far. Well, yeah, and the insiders were the big corporation owners, and a lot of people, if they read the book, they would actually get sick to their stomach. I kid you not. It's called The History of the Great American Fortune by Gustavius Myers, part one and part two. And it goes through, and I have that so porcupine so much that you pick it up and you say, well, which one do I start with? But they go, the great proprietary estates, and the world traders become the feudal lords. And that's how they were. And they were the world traders.

31:47And you can consider the world traders as the founding fathers. And it goes into the Vanderbilt's... The Robert Barron families? Pardon? The Robert Barron families, which are key in this whole deal, too, in this last century. The Astor fortunes and the banks and their powers and how they mandated everything. and how they actually wrote the laws to make them above board.

32:21And it said the training class had already learned the importance of principle that while it was essential to law control, law making bodies was imperative to have as their auxiliary the bodies that interpreted the law. to a large extent in the United States since it has not lived under legislative made law, but under purely separate and extraneous form of law, which was superseded by the legislature product, namely court law. And it was how the banking frauds, how the public domain, I mean, it's a very big book and it's like eight, 900 pages. 600, I'm up to, and I still got a lot more to go here.

33:05Would you recite that title again? Okay, it is the history of the great American fortunes. The name is Gustavius, G-U-S-T-A-V-U-S, Myers, M-Y-E-R-S. And it was published by the Modern Library in New York, published by the Random House, Incorporated, manufactured in the United States, and it was 1936 when it was printed. And the originals were copyrighted in 1907.

33:50And then it entered the stationaries hall of London, England in 1909 and 1910. And it was the first modern edition in 1936. Going on with the other part of this question, he asked, was it to test a new way to run a plantation for more slaves? That is, us. Right.

34:21uh... sorry to say it but all the slaves are voters because their vote doesn't count for anything and uh... you know i look at all this frenzy and all this voting and all the different states between those three idiots that are up there and you know it's just human nature that everybody's rah rah yay yay and screaming and yelling and waving flags and everything they don't realize they're creating their own demise their own slavery but they're giving it a promoter to it Yeah.

34:52But would you agree, though, too, that voting is one of the ways that the elites... Yeah, that's one of the ways they get you, because when you join a corporation, you become an auxiliary member of that corporation, and as such, you owe total allegiance to that corporation. In other words, when the Lord formed everybody here, all he wanted was allegiance. And he gave man the right to do whatever he wanted to do. And he said to them, if you want a king, I'm here. If you want a man king, then I can't help you when you leave me and seek another master.

35:37And whatever he does to you, I can't help you. You're on your own. So when you look at the word allegiance, and I just put it on ATG Press, that allegiance is a feudal term and the king demanded total allegiance and the same with the United States. And they even tell you that once you form an allegiance to the United States or a state, it's almost impossible to get out of it because they won't let you out of it. Okay. Where are you going to go? You're going to say, oh, well, you know, I'm going back to the Lord because, oh, okay. Well, who is the Lord? Which Lord are they talking about? Yeah, yeah.

36:19Well, the Lord Almighty is not Satan, but a lot of times if they read it, they'll see. It's kind of hard to explain without seeing the words in front of you and what they're doing and to go back and look at different sections of it. But it comes right out of Black's Law, fourth edition. Um, and this is just a little aside, but as much as, you know, not everyone who's a lawyer is a rotten person, but I mean, lawyers were very complicit in what took place early on. And if you remember one of the first times when I, I went to you kind of, uh, naively and I said, well, if, if Patrick Henry and some of these characters knew exactly what was going down, why did they sign onto it?

37:03And you answered to me because they're lawyers. That's right. And that's also a special group that Jesus has some special words for. Oh, yeah, sure did. He wished woe upon them. And if people really read what the definition of woe means, they would never have. And it was the Lord that issued woe against them. Right. I mean, you're supposed to be a man that was supposed to help you out and teach you the right ways and everything and be compassionate. Well, he wasn't very compassionate on lawyers, pharmacies and scribes, was he? Uh, no. And I think we can take that back to the true reason why that profession sprung up it or sprang up rather.

37:47And that is, um, they, they, human government and human law is outside what the Lord wanted for us. Right. And so when you get into those constructs, they're counterfeit constructs that are not of him. Who would that be of? Well, you guys can guess who that is. If it isn't the Lord, guess what? And so what they also did is they almost created, if in fact they did create, a quasi-secret society with its own language, which the hoi poi like you and me, you know, really can't figure out. And that's the whole idea, isn't it? Right. Yeah, because what they really, they started, believe it or not, I researched back in lawyers and, uh, The other man that wrote about the lawyers was, let me see, I'm trying to see if I can find that book here.

38:42It's The History of the Law in America and The History of the American Bars by Charles Warren, one of the best writers ever when it was 1930, 1966. And this again is a very large book. And he goes through the history of the American bar. And the lawyers were never recognized as a complete entity or corporation or whatnot until the year 1355. They were on their own up to that point in time. And he goes about the prejudices against law and lawyers. It's not a law book. He even comes out and tells you that This is not a law book.

39:30It's just the history of the bar association. And everybody wants the common law. He says right here the common law was still feudal and tyrannical. That is why none of the people wanted common law, the common law of England. And he said in the parliament in 1677 there was a law before lawyers There was a time when the common customs of the land were significant to secure meme and truth. What has made it so difficult? Nothing but the comments of lawyers confounding the text and withering the laws like a nose of wax to what figure best serves their purpose.

40:12Now, lawyers are the ones also, are they not, that are invested in the number of courts, whether it's what, the inner or the middle? Yeah, the middle and the inner temple, yeah. You know that we do have them here as well, right? Oh yeah, because there is four inns of courts in North Carolina and I researched them and I got all their addresses and stuff like that. Now I asked of a lawyer down here in Florida if he was aware of it and he's a decent guy. I mean I knew him for enough time that I felt okay asking this and that's because we saw each other because of baseball games last year which I was covering in which he had a son playing so he was in a press box with us. And I got to ask him more and more stuff.

40:55And he seemed like somebody also who was, as far as they go, lawyers, pretty much a civil libertarian. But I asked him about that. I said, are you aware of this? He goes, yeah, vaguely. I go, well, what are they for? He goes, I don't know. He goes, I'm figuring that whoever's shooting for a judgeship is probably in them. I believe he was honest in saying that. Oh, yeah. A lot of lawyers don't know. They're just dumb as a bump on the wall as the rest of the American people. Well, would you say that the the several levels over here are really not anywhere near what was established in England. No, they're not. I mean, in England and in London, I guess, in particular, that's the real deal, isn't it? Uh-huh.

41:41So, you know, what's interesting, too, is that are you familiar with the Pilgrim Society? No, I heard about them, but they were by the research and into them. Well, anyway, there's a real beauty biography about them. You know, obviously they commissioned somebody to do a good job on them, but they also have a list of all the people who, in this society from the United States, came over, and that's Harry Truman and the other guys, you know, the usual suspects, Kissinger and stuff. But whenever they have a meeting, and they have it at different places, they have Big Bang Buds, whenever they have it, like at the Middle Inn or whatever. Some over here is the Middle Temple. Yeah, the inner temples take care of Europe and the middle temple comes over here. Okay.

42:24Hey, listen, we got a caller, so if you don't mind, Iman, let's talk to whoever's on the line. Hello? Okay. Hello. Hello. Hi, there. All right, what's your question? What's your comment? Well, what about the Constitution satisfy King George III to lay off the new U.S.? Are you saying what? What, satisfy King George about the Constitution? Yeah. Okay, Iman, what about that? Uh, he really wasn't satisfied. Well, he was satisfied with the constitution because, uh, that still put America under his control. All right. So in other words, whatever was done contractually, he was satisfied that they would still have a working enterprise going on. Oh yeah. Yeah. He, uh, he controlled. Well, he don't really control it.

43:06He's the front man for the exchequer, which is the international bankers and the Pope and the banker cabal, because he's a, the banker cabal, affronted both the Pope and the King when they were fighting each other. And to the lender, everybody owes the lender, and he has the final say. You go to a bank, you want to borrow $1,000, they say, OK, sign on the dotted line, and you pay us $500 over and above the $1,000 that you want. And you say, no. He says, bye-bye. You know, you deal with what I want, or you don't deal at all.

43:51All right, so we can say in sum that... Actually, the king just loved it when that constitution was formed because it was a byproduct of his 1783 treaty, which they tried to change in 1792, and they didn't. And they abandoned both treaties. In fact, the 1783 treaty was abandoned when the British actually went into Washington in 1812 and destroyed it.

44:24So any time a treaty is made and amongst any nation and either one of those parties creates a war or a strife, it nullifies the treaty and it puts it back to where they originally were and that's what happened because then the king went back to the 1603 treaty in this country, especially in Virginia, and he owned everything. Again, forget about the treaty, it's gone. All right, we have a second caller, but before we go to that person, I would say, and whatever they struck back then would not only... That carries forward. Yes, so that when you had only 13 or 20 or now 48 to 50 states, it's still all It's still all a corporation under the United States.

45:18There was other things they had to do to change that to make sure that the United States could control all of the states. All right, we have another caller, I believe. Hello? Hello, are you reading me? Yes, we can hear you. Okay, great. I just want to thank you guys for being out there, especially you, Viz, and especially I, man, because He really laid it all out there the way it really is.

45:41And I just wanted to make a special effort to call in today because of all the strife that's going on about how certain groups are really making an effort to use the Constitution to try to get some of our rights back, which I guess is rights we never had in the first place. Maybe that's the relieving thing, you know, but I care about my country, my people. I'd like to do something about it, but I don't want to be stupid about it. So, you know, it's a real good idea to listen to both sides.

46:24And since you have the eye man on, my specific question to him before I might make some other comments is, which one are you think would probably be the key thing for you to figure out Are you fit in the system and how you can work the system to your advantage? Correct? Right. That's why the book was titled as a question and not like the other patriots that have gone under the gun, where, oh, well, you've got to do this and you've got to do that, and this is right and this is wrong, and in no way is there telling the person. Here, I put the book as a question And that way, the government can't come back and say, well, you told someone this, and you told them that.

47:10I said, no, I asked them a question. Well, the way I figure it, the only way to be free is to be fast on your feet to have citizenship in more than one country. I'd like to know your thoughts on that. I mean, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that that's the name of the game is to have citizenship in more than one country. That way, you can show a different passport when you want to get out. Like I see a time not far away when you will not be able to get out of the US with a US passport. And so only other thing is I wish somebody would tell Alex Jones that the Constitution doesn't mean anything. I mean, come on. All these people are going to die.

47:53And only other comment is I was a Wing TV fan. So Biz, thanks for being in communication with them. I sent them a thank you note recently. But 9-11 was the statement that we own you, and we're going to do whatever we want, including a nuclear bomb in your throat, to get what we want, because we own you. And that's it. And I would sort of like to talk about the religion myth a little bit, but it's just not productive. So since you have the guests you have, I'll just make those comments, and then get offline and hear whatever comments you have. All right. Thanks a lot for calling. I appreciate it.

48:33Well, he's got a good point there because on citizenship, because how I got out of what I did under the IRS rule. Are you there? Yeah, I think our caller is still on. If you can, please hang up and listen on the internet because we're getting your reverb. All right, try again. This goes back to the founding fathers again. A lot of people, and the myth is that they were divinely inspired to write this Constitution, okay? Well, if they were such divinely right and righteous founding fathers, why didn't they say, okay, we'll go back to the Lord's Constitution.

49:17We're citizens of the Lord, Ephesians 2.19. Why do we need to be a citizen of any other manmade corporation? All right, so what you're saying is there was an opportunity. Now, remember something. In the scope of the world, a lot of people wouldn't like to live in a theocracy, and I understand that, because again, we know the nature of the kingdoms, and Satan was very clear about that in Luke 4. However, despite that, there was this opportunity, if we were really something different, and to a certain extent we were, but there was the opportunity to embrace all those precepts, because they've got Jefferson and a lot of these cats like Franklin being Christians, and they were deists at best and rakes, most likely.

50:00And so if they wanted to do it, they had their shot to do it. They're trying to say it's biblically inspired, but it isn't. No, it's not. They could have gone for the real deal. That's right. Now, the thing in here, in Black's law, that I had put in there, and it says, allegiance. By allegiance is meant the obligation of fidelity and obedience, which the individual owes to the government under which he lives or to his sovereign in return for the protection he receives. Now, the citizen or subject owes absolute and permanent allegiance to his government or sovereign.

50:45So all these people that claim I'm sovereign is for naught. They're not sovereign. They never were sovereign. And it says the alien while domiciled in the country owes thy local and temporary allegiance which continues during the period of his residence." And of course they cite all the cases. It says, the tie or ligament which binds the subject or citizen to the king or government in return for that protection which the king or government affords to the subject or citizen. So right there, It just tells you local allegiance and then they got national allegiance.

51:29And it says in American law, the allegiance due from citizens of the United States to their native country or also and also from naturalized citizens and which, now get this, cannot be renounced without the permission of government to be declared by law. So once you stand up there and take a pledge of allegiance, We all did as kids, but we didn't know, you know, what's allegiance? Oh, you're pledging allegiance to the flag. I never, I never liked it. And, um, I don't pledge allegiance. In fact, the founding fathers said they'd never have pledged allegiance to anybody. Well, you know what it says in scripture to take no other oath.

52:11And that, um, and also if you read the origins, not the little vanilla thing they throw up on the website, which people like to give me, I had it like 10 times. It's like, you know, get me on that. Take a look at the Bellamy's and what they intended the Pledge of Allegiance to be. It was giving your butt over to the state. Oh yeah. No doubt about it. Now, the problem with these other founding fathers though, and I'm not banging Freemasonry just on face, but when you get up to the high degrees, it's about Babylon. And again, they take an oath just like skull and bones. And if you're a Christian, you cannot do it. That's right. And that's why when I went to court, I wrote, in fact, you can get it on ATG Press. So you want to take an oath that's all about oaths? Right.

52:53And I gave it to the judge before I was supposed to be a witness in a small claims court. And, you know, they had, I watched some other ones before while we were sitting there. And, you know, I handed this to the judge before we went in. And he said, okay, I'll take a look at it. When we got in there, he never required anybody to take an oath. So I waited around after. Everybody cleared out of the court and he was getting ready to leave. And I walked up to him and I says, did you have a chance to read it? He says, you didn't hear me make anybody take a note, did you? I'll take that as a yes.

53:34All right, real quick before we go any further, I'm going to let you do the honors. Tell them about the website and tell them about the books that are there to purchase. OK, it's informerarchives.com. And at the bottom, it has all the listing of books. All the rest is free. I decided I would give all the information for free instead of charging for it. I could have put everything on ATG Press into books up the wazoo, and I'd have about 15 or 20 more books that I could make money with. But I figured, well, I want to get this out to the people so they know the truth instead of charging them for it. So I only kept the small amount of books that you see in the bottom just to offset some costs that I run into.

54:18And that's basically all there is. And it just says to send to the address that's in there. And don't send it to AG Press. They won't know. And it's just the U.S. Postal Money Order left completely blank. In fact, the U.S. Postal Money Order is the only thing that says money. If you look at it, yeah, payment in money. And of course, it's not Federal Reserve notes because Federal Reserve notes aren't money.

54:45Yeah, and I want to just tell folks this came from the IMAN, so I'm not taking credit for this, but you have sent me scans of letters, one that has been titled FRN, or not dollars, Federal Reserve Notes, and the Bob Beers letter back to one of his constituents, I guess, with regard to the nature of that as well, right? Yes, uh-huh. Well, folks, if you want to email me, I'll send you those two scans. And remember, I'm not taking credit for this. This is from the IMAN, but you're going to howl when you read this. Again, you can't make this kind of stuff up. We only have about five minutes left to go, but what I wanted to do was just ask you some questions as quickly as we can get them in.

55:22And really, when we look back at everything, we shouldn't be all, I mean, first of all, you and I are not, we're not communists, we're not anarchists. We just want to know the truth. I mean, we live our lives, we do what we do, but something is wrong and most people know it. And most people, especially in our cohort, We've lived now, what, you know, 50 to 60 years, and you've seen a lot of stuff go on, and I think it's always older people who realize near the end of the days that it's like, it's been a scam, man. Well, I first found out when I was 40, because when I first started to work, I was dead set against Social Security. I was only 18 years old, but I was still dead set against Social Security. You know, I figured, well, hey, why turn it over to the government when I can save it myself and, you know, But then the old argument, well, people can't save, so you give it to the government, and they save it for you.

56:13But you know what? That's like what William Cooper said about socialism. It's for babies. That's right. If you can't do it, then that's the way it goes. Yeah. And that's what happened. And then when I got to 40 years old, I said, something is wrong. Something is wrong, totally wrong, with this government. Because I read the Constitution and so many things, and people being knocked down. And that's when I got involved. Yeah, I'm 71, so and I look at it and everything and I just saw the poor dumbed down people are so stupid and ignorant today that they would give up their first baby if the government told them to. Well, they've done that and they're second and they're third. And that's another whole thing. And I appreciate you sending me the email. And I'm being a little cryptic for those that are listening.

56:57But with what was sent to me by the individual, that is and then you've confirmed that it's good information. I think that's got to go out. And it has to do with this recent situation over in Texas. We're not buying... Oh yeah, that's, you know... Yeah, I mean, we're not saying that polygamy is a great thing or whatever, but there's something else going on there. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. And the other thing is, you know, this all has always been about the money. It's always been about the money going back to Babylon. Nation states are markets. Right. And like what I did have for...

57:33People, I know I've only got about three minutes or something, but if you go to Dun & Bradstreet or Manta, M-A-N-T-A, and type in Internal Revenue Service, and you have to fish around for it, you'll find it, but it'll say that it is a private corporation, and that always has been. All the way back to 1866 when I got the document from the postmaster that He was incensed that his employees had to pay the income tax and the IRS didn't have to.

58:08So he wrote a letter to the Secretary of Treasury and I've got the full letter with everything on it and it says that the postal workers are paid by the United States government while the Internal Revenue Service is not paid by the United States government and no money is issued to them at all from the government or appropriated to them. Therefore, they are private and do not have to file income tax returns. Once again, folks, we can't answer all your questions you might have. If you've just heard this for the first time, that's impossible. But there's a history to this. We did a whole series with the I-Man in the old show, which you can find on visitgoth.com. Or you can hit Archive Audios, and you can find the first show we ever did. The website on which you can find so much of what he's written is informerarchives.com.

58:55Well, the other little thing I want to give out to him is two cases. Diversified Metals versus Tebow, where the U.S. Attorney denied that the Internal Revenue Service is a government employee employment, and the case of U.S. versus Zbarth in South Dakota, where Kevin R. Whalen was the Internal Revenue Service Special Agent. And I'm reading right from the transcript, and it says, the court, I would tell you that I would like to have you do. He's talking to Van Wald, who was the attorney. I'd like to have you simply ask the bottom line, based on information to determine that you decided to conduct an undercover operation.

59:41As far as entrapment is concerned, at this point, I don't see any possibility of entrapment. Because if Mr. Zebarth was entrapped, why it was done so by a non-governmental agent. Now, who are they talking to about? The agent. And at the end, he says, well, of course, we know that in our circuit, one cannot be entrapped by anyone except a governmental agent, and private people cannot entrap other private people. And secondly, the issue of entrapment is focused on predisposition, and I don't see where this evidence goes to any predisposition of ZBARTH. So I'd like to have you conclude this historical presentation, and let's move on. All right. The point being is we've got to go. I'm going to be hearing the music in a second, the IRS is a private corporation.

1:00:26It was from that a private individual went ahead and supposedly under the guise of law entrapped someone and it cannot happen from private corporations or people. Right. And they are also subject to Title 15 USC 1692 validation of debt because they're a private collection agency and they fall under that Title 15 and have to respond to it. All right. I mean, listen, I appreciate you being on and this is not over and we'll continue this on and I'm sure there's going to be some feedback from this. So listen, I want to thank you for Coming on to the show, and we will catch you somewhere down the road. Again, informerarchives.com. Okay. And again, if you've got to go for anything, go for the New History of America. I'm in, you take care. Okay. Alright, bye-bye now. Bye-bye.

1:01:30I've been nowhere yet. And when your face is safe, it's fine. We all don't feel the news. So I've been away. We all go one way now. With. Me.

1:02:32Aggressi-no.

1:04:23That one, this is a top to a... Hey, Big Jim, are we on the AeroWatt? If that's the case, we're up to hour two of the grassy knoll and we will have with us in the second hour. Andy Senior, whom you remember as being part of the Uticans for 9-11 Truth.

1:05:02And we also have with us, and Jim's told me that on the line, we also have Shane Dayton, another writer out of Texas, who in his bio said he's fiercely independent. I would usually laugh at something like that, but this guy lived in Alaska for too many years, so I'm not going to argue with him, but he's now a resident of Texas. So now he's living in the two biggest states in the Union. And Andy, you're with us, right? Yes, and I'm firstly independent, too. Yeah, but you live in Utica. Who cares? Yes, well, that's true. Well, you have to be firstly independent in Utica. Of course, you get rocks thrown at you, but I'm used to it. All right. And Shane, are you with us? Yes, I am. Hey, Shane, welcome to the show. And say hi to Andy, if you don't mind.

1:05:46Andy, good to be with you guys. Great to meet you. You guys probably have not dialogued, I think, via email, but we were both talking about a book, and let me just preface what we're going to do here, and that is the second hour is going to be devoted to, shall we say, futuristic and or science fiction books that were anything but fiction. What about that? Why is that? And is there something going on that we don't know about except for those who dig down deeper? And Shane wrote an essay on Sinclair Lewis's It Can't Happen Here, I believe, 1935.

1:06:28Andy's well acquainted with that work, but also Andy goes back with us for a long time and understands the predictive programming nature of books that were written. And we're going to try to touch upon as many as we can. But if I can first, Shane, I want to throw it to you and ask you, what was it that drew your attention to this book? Because although we've not talked very much, You know, the way you came about all this and the reason why you figured things out, uh, came from a way different than what we had done. And so this is completely unsolicited. So I'm going to, I'm throwing it to you and saying, you know, when did you get it? And what, what about this book? It can't happen here.

1:07:09Really struck you to the core cause you wrote a great, um, I would call it dissertation. That's a little bit, probably a little too highfaluted, but you wrote a great breakdown of that book. So Shane, take it away. What that, what that all was about. Oh, thank you. It can't happen here. Just considered one of Sinclair Lewis's kind of last really effective, powerful work. To him, there was definitely a point of view during that time. And of course, this is with World War II in the background. There's this question of, well, could fascism sneak into the United States? You have this time where, you know, at least from here, it might seem a little bit simpler. You know, you had the Nazis who were, quote unquote, evil. you had the US fighting for good.

1:07:50And so he started wondering, well, could the same kind of fascism sneak into the United States? And the answer that St. Clair Lewis came up with, and he puts it through this book, is that yes, it could. And what really attracted me to this work is the fact that he had made a distinction that I don't think most people make, in that he sees a very, very big difference between patriotism and nationalism. And patriotism can be just that simple pride in the country, or you're glad to live where you live, and this can be a good thing. Nationalism, you can see people becoming so obsessed with the whole, we are the best ever, we are inherently good, you know? And the state becomes everything, right, Shane?

1:08:35Exactly. The US above all else, and American life is more important than another one. And with that mentality, He believed that yes, actually, someone, fascism could easily sneak into the United States. And it wouldn't happen by a takeover by military. It would happen because you'd have this very likable politician. And in the book, you know, the Southern draw, guys wanted to have a beer with them. You know, some of this sounds eerily familiar from the past few years. And just someone who would speak in very, very Not specific terms, you have generalizations like freedom, patriotic, not patriotic.

1:09:14And by making it an us or them, or you either love this country or you don't mentality, you could very much seize control for the greater good. And under the guise of the greater good and patriotism, St. Clair Lewis did believe that fascism could sneak in. And that concept to me of, oh, the US would not, and I read this in high school, It's like, oh, the US would not fall because of a military invasion or a Red Dawn type of thing. It would be because people calling themselves patriots would support this man so much that they would let him take away the very things that were worth protecting. And that's what really struck me at a young age. Let me ask you this, and I'm going to let Andy field a question.

1:09:56But Shane, in that book, isn't one of the necessary elements to get people to turn from patriotism to nationalism, which is a very pernicious form of patriotism, if it's a shade of it at all. And that is there's got to be some kind of perceived or real threat from either without or within. Did you find that the case in Lewis's work? I found that completely to be the case. There has to be something you can mobilize against, and you have to play off the emotion. is intellectually you can't sit down with a room of people and say, well, I think these are the 10 reasons why we should be fascist instead of democracy. If they tried that, it would never work. We'd laugh them out of the room.

1:10:39But if you have everyone scared of someone or this enemy in the distance or this enemy within, whether it's some modern examples, whether it's gay marriage, immigration, terrorism, unpatriotic people, kind of cloak and dagger, you can choose any group you want. as long as you get that perception of an enemy that you have to deal with that's sneaking behind the scenes. Once you get that paranoia going, then almost anything is possible. All right, Andy, also I'm going to throw it to you. What about what Lewis wrote and how accurate he was, and do you have any information? Shane might have also, but I think, you know, Andy, you and I have talked about it.

1:11:24that there was a greater insight, I think, for him, because wasn't his wife Dorothy Thompson somebody who was over watching the beginning strains of the National Socialists? Yeah, she had actually written a book in 1932 about Hitler. And as a matter of fact, Dorothy Thompson was the first journalist thrown out of Hitler's Germany. And that was a cause of some great pride to her, actually, that she was kicked out almost immediately.

1:11:51uh... when she was the first the first western journalist uh... well american journalist they should that thrown out of hitler's germany because of uh... an unflattering portrait she had written in nineteen thirty two and i think that was one thing that got louis thinking about all the all the things that were occurring at that time and uh... it was it was also um... uh... of all of all the other things that were going on where they had You had Father Charles E. Coughlin on the radio very frequently. He was a major, major person at that point.

1:12:30And what he had said was that he was basically going after the Jewish financiers and the people controlling the money supply and was saying a lot of stuff probably that was not entirely wrong, but what he was saying, but he was putting a huge cast on it toward toward a jewish conspiracy and of course there's nothing like that going on today and if you listen to patriot radio but but you do hear that and and you had but you did have cocklin and my father was born in nineteen twenty four remembers that in it was a big that that in catholic households cocklin was on uh... on the radio constantly And you go into, you couldn't say a bad thing about the man to these people because they were sold on him.

1:13:23And the thing about Lewis, and it can't happen here, he mentions a lot of people who are real people, like Coughlin and Huey Long, et cetera. And there are certain writers that he mentions too, in addition to the ones he made up. Well, he made up another guy who was sort of like a hyper Coughlin called Bishop Frank, who was basically saying all the things that Coughlin was saying about the Jewish international financiers and everything. So it was very interesting to see where that was going. But indeed, all the stuff that was going on with Lewis, he saw a lot of that going on. And there was always a red scare. In the 1930s, things were so much an upheaval.

1:14:04You had every flavor, all the Baskin-Robbins flavors of political activism out there. And you did have like proto-fascist people in America. You had the German-American Bund hanging out here. You also had the Reds were really big. The Communist Party was huge in the 1930s. And that scared a lot of people. So this came about and it was not entirely inconceivable at the time. And it is really a book of its time and of a lot of other times too. Because I've been looking through it, and I did happen to reread it very, very, very recently.

1:14:45And it does have such a... It relates so much to today in that way, but you did have a lot of different groups. Now it's the terrorists, it's the Muslims. Then it was the Jews and the communists and the blacks and various other groups. And there were provisions in each of the planks of Buzz Windrup's platform that pertained to those people. And it really got a huge coalition of a lot of really, I'll say it, pissed off people together to vote for him. Shane, you read that book in high school originally, is that correct? Correct. All right. Did you revisit it at all through those years afterward? Yeah, I did.

1:15:29I revisited it towards the end of my undergraduate college career. And then I go back to chapters and references for papers during graduate school. Was your exegesis of that book a little different the second time around? It'd be hard for me to say exactly. I think there was definitely, I mean with youth there's obviously a very fiery temperament that over time, which can be good and bad, so I think my understanding of it was definitely better on the second reading. And I appreciated more that the book It was definitely a book written with an intention.

1:16:09It wasn't just, you know, here's another novel and he sneaks in a few political messages. It Can't Happen Here was definitely, you know, a very strong kind of, in my opinion, kind of a political message first, you know, warning first, work of fiction, kind of a distant second or third, however you want to rank it. And I think Andy brought up some really great points along those lines too. All right, let me just say this because I'll give you one book.

1:16:35uh... where my take was completely different and because i was pretty much you know bumpheaded what was a high school senior and some would say nothing's changed but i mean i did read the book uh... somewhat twenty one years later uh... do you remember how your english teacher i'm sure that's under whom you read that book broke it down i mean with the teacher teacher necessarily say listen the heads up to this or is it just another work that you guys that you know reports on it and it and off you went For me, actually, it can't happen here was actually independent of most of my English teachers. I was kind of rebellious in the sense that everything they had us reading seemed to be either Fitzgerald or happy, sappy stuff.

1:17:19And so I just kind of did a lot of reading on my own. OK. Well, this is a good sign. Yes, both of us. Also, we're going to go on with more of this, by the way. And I want to get back to both your websites or blog sites. But you listen to Beyond the Grass, you know, and we do have with us Shane Dayton from Texas and Andy from upstate New York where nothing good ever happens. But I want to let you know if you want to call in toll free about this whole nature of predictive programming that takes place. Now it happens a lot more in electronic media nowadays and the movies and TV. But there were books that were being written and not necessarily were these people bad people. They might have been giving us a heads up and a warning without having to go through the whole nine yards with writing it factually and dealing with perhaps lawsuits or just a lot of invective.

1:18:09So if you want to call in, you can do so on the toll free, which is 888-333-9009. If you can IM, if it's MSN, you can send it to Bizigoth. You can also send emails right now about what we're talking about to bizigoth at hotmail.com and bizigoth at verizon.net. And before we go to the next round of questions, I do want to go back and say, listen, Shane, is there some place you would like people to go to where they can read that essay that you wrote and everything else that's going on with you? Sure, yeah. Most of my pages are under squadoo.com, which is S-Q-U-I-D-O-O.com. And in the search engine there, if you just type in Sinclair Lewis or dystopian novels, my pages are the ones that keep popping up.

1:18:53I'd be glad if anyone could visit, and I have all my guestbooks so everyone can leave a comment. I'm always happy to hear other points of view, so anyone who'd like to visit would love to have you online. Well, just remember, you asked for it, so. I've actually linked to your essay on my blog. I've linked to the essay. Okay, okay. So it's in connection with his show. And Andy, what's your website? euticansfor911truth.blogspot.com Now, both of you are involved in this, and that is the whole idea of the dystopian novel. And the fact that it's really, well, I mean, let me just say this.

1:19:31When I did my graduate project and I read like Brave New World and Clockwork Orange and Blade Runner and Atlas Shrug and Fahrenheit 451, you know, that I didn't go into therapy is amazing. But what I did realize, and I was reading those books for a different premise, a different thesis, what I came up to was, you know, what is going on? These folks all knew that something was not good. And people can say, well, there's no money in writing about happy things. It's always better with gloom and doom. However, that doesn't mean that the gloom isn't on the horizon and these guys knew it. I'm not saying they were proponents of anything that was going on, but somehow, some way, they knew it. And I'd like to introduce something a little bit later on. But be that as it may, throwing it back to you, Shane, I mean, you talked about Huxley, you talked about Orwell, who I think is badly misunderstood.

1:20:17about this whole nature of what is to come. In fact, you know, another one we could talk about like is Clockwork Orange and what the heck that was about. Always this bleak state-run society. But you did, you did, you were attracted to Sinclair Lewis's book and you have also read other information. At what time did it strike you that these guys actually might have been telling us something about the shape of things to come? For me, it was about midway through college. I've always, my parents, raised me to question everything. Question your teachers, question your professors, listen, but don't take anyone's word as if it was complete truth. Always find out for yourself and find the other side of the argument. And I was always a voracious reader.

1:21:01So a lot of books you mentioned, Clockwork Orange, Fahrenheit 451, Brave New World by Huxley. It seemed really interesting to me that I was into the horror science fiction. stumbled upon a lot of dystopian novels before I even knew what dystopia was. And what really hit me is, hey, there's something really going on here. I could read four or five different dystopian novels. We'll say Fahrenheit 451, Great New World, 1984, old one most people don't know, Iron Heel by Jack London. It can't happen here. And what interested me, I could read five books all saying, hey, here's something bad on the horizon. Here's what's coming.

1:21:46Here's the danger we're looking at. And they all got there a different way, which was what really struck me. One got there because the TV culture took over and reading was banned. So you had this kind of stupefied populace that didn't have the ability to question or argue. One, you took the right-wing beliefs to the extreme in 1984. You took the left wing. beliefs to the extreme and brave new world. There were just so many ways you could go there from military, politically, it could be science, it could be religion.

1:22:19And the fact that, you know, there were 10, 12, 20 different roads to get there, but it all led to this kind of gloomy place instantly that got my attention that, hey, there has to be something going on here if you can take 20 roads, but you all end up in the same destination. There has to be something to that.

1:22:38uh... anyone who respond to that well i think well i think a lot of writers i think it uh... cautionary note it there these these are these are the shapes of things to come uh... if if not the actual things themselves and a lot of them are sort of issued as a warning i think maybe even huxley was probably salivating over the prospect on your brave new world huxley so uh... with no other plan and possibly and of course that we've we've talked about H.G. Wells before, and more about him in a minute, but I do think that this book, It Can't Happen Here, was really a warning and was issued as that more than as a predictive device.

1:23:23However, many things in it, here's a quote from the platform, and it can't happen here, that Buzz Windrip had put as far as his party went. This sounds vaguely familiar, again, uh... congress shall immediately pop up on our organ off inauguration initiate amendments the constitution providing a that the president shall have the authority to institute execute all necessary measures for the conduct of the government during this critical epic the congress will serve only in an advisory capacity falling to the attention of the president and his aides and cabinet any needed legislation but not acting upon payment or authority authorized by the President so to act and see that the Supreme Court shall immediately have removed from its jurisdiction the powers to negate by ruling them to be unconstitutional or by any other judicial action any or all acts of the President as duly appointed aides or Congress.

1:24:24And that's, you know, this sounds like, it's like reportage. And of course it's not, it's not unknown that certain things like that have happened. But then again, a couple of pages later, and this is really good, and I think this is really, one character is saying this, I think it's Doraemus Jessup, says, yes, nasty enough, but what I've got to keep remembering is that wind drift is only the lightest cork on the whirlpool. He didn't plot all this thing. With all the justified discontent there is against the smart politicians and the plush horses of plutocracy, All of it hadn't been one wind drip, it had been another.

1:25:08We had it coming, we respectables. But that isn't going to make us like it. Well, no, not at all. And let's go to something else, too. And Shane, when I was asking you if, obviously you told me you read the book, It Can't Happen Here, outside of the public fool system, I read Brave New World in it. And it was broken down to me as being, oh, a black satire. I'm like, yeah, okay, this whole reality sucks if that's what they're into.

1:25:40But in fact, I found out that it was not a black satire, that Huxley and his strain go back to Thomas Huxley, the grandfather, who was tied in with Darwin, and who also was tied with Wells, who then was kind of like the intermediary between the grandfather and the sons, and that would be Aldous and Julian. Also out there, I don't know if either one of you are aware of this, but you can listen to a speech that Aldous Huxley gave late in life called Love Your Servitude, and in it he talks about the scientific dictatorship where basically it's like soma.

1:26:18You can go out and live your humdrum life, and when you need a little hit of soma, it makes things all so okay. In Blade Runner, which was the book Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep by Philip K. Dick. He hit the mood organ whenever he needed a little elevation. So we're looking at something where we're all being told that there's going to be, for those of us who are left on this planet, a bit of a humdrum gray life. And to make things worth it, they're going to give you something to stimulate yourself. And so let me throw that to you, Shane, also. I mean, in all that's been portrayed to come, they don't really deny the fact that it's not gonna be real good for us little people and that they'll make it worth your while, but it doesn't really say much about, I guess, the freedoms for people to come in the next generation.

1:27:08Your thoughts on that? I think it's always kind of a hard thing to dictate exactly what you gain and what you lose. And so in that aspect, for freedoms to come, It's kind of funny because I had someone make the argument and discussion with me. It's like, well, OK, so the FBI can search you if they think you're a terrorist. Have you actually directly today lost one of your rights? And of course, that's a really slanted question, intending an answer I don't want to give. Well, day to day, does it affect me? Probably not, but that's beside the point because the right you assume you have against illegal search and seizure and notice I do use the word assume, it's still one that should be granted.

1:27:57And so I think so often with like dystopias, if it was an obvious big thing, like you know, every tenth person gets selected in a lottery and is executed each year, well, obviously, no matter how much you brainwash a society, you're going to have a really hard time pushing that one. But if you go to a gray area, take a little bit here, take a little bit there, just kind of go into a role, For most people, I think the number one thing they want is a feeling of safety and security. So even if it's a dull gray life like you described, if you at least have that perception of security, unfortunately, I think a lot of people are willing to give up their rights for that feeling, which I think to an extent is kind of what you're seeing in the US right now.

1:28:40And I think with the literature, that's kind of the easiest way to extrapolate. I think that's why so often it's, well, it's not great for the little guy, but in most of these books, you don't see you know it isn't like a mad max movie world where you have to fight everyday to survive you're just having this humdrum go along. Shane, not yet. Not yet, yeah, exactly. Let's go look on the bright side, shall we? I know, it's like things can get worse and they will. Alright Andy, again, you want to hit off that? Well, it's true though, it's very true. And I also want to mention that with regard to H.G.

1:29:23Wells, it's sort of odd because Lewis was a big admirer of H.G. Wells. And I found out that he named his first son after him. His first son was named Wells Lewis. And apparently, from what I found from the Mark Shor biography, because I haven't had that, he was He didn't admire him for his science fiction or politics so much, but on his social satire, like the history of Mr. Polly.

1:29:53But in 1911, when he was 26 years old, he wrote a story called Captains of Peace, which is Germany is about to destroy England, and a Danish Nobel Prize winner escapes from Germany to the US by plane, where he joins forces with a millionaire, a new thought, equivalent of new-age poet to form the peace army.

1:30:19And Japan joins Germany and the United States sides with England, but the peace army has technologically advanced weapons and attacks both sides, and it forces peace and starts a new-thought United Nations in which the Danish Nobel Prize winner is made president of the world. And this is really way out stuff, but it's really redolent of H.G. Wells, I think, even Things to Come, which the movie came out in the 30s. But it has that ring to it. But it's amazing. That was basically a pot-boiler, he wrote.

1:30:59And the book isn't even mentioned in the new biography of Lewis, the one that came out a couple of years ago. It's in the Old One in 1961. But the story does exist because there are copies of it out there in its original publication in the Nautilus magazine, which was a new thought magazine, by the way. What a surprise. Yeah, really. Also, let me throw it back to Shane. Before we move away from It Can't Happen Here, is there anything you wanted to speak to that book before we go on? It's a pretty well car. I mean, the biggest thing that is kind of a side one to interests of me One of the most common quotes attributed to Sinclair Lewis, and there's huge arguments over this on whether he actually said this or not, is, if fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag waving the cross.

1:31:48And the interesting part to that is it's generally thought that, you know, that wasn't the actual quote and the cross that I think was added on later. But I think what's interesting to that is, you know, you have this argument, you know, with just the wrap the flag, there you go, there's your nationalism. that he's warning about. You know, you just add that cross and suddenly you might... I think the religious argument always kind of muddles things because suddenly people who might agree with you against nationalism suddenly feel offended or conflicted with the cross thing. And I think a lot of times when you see in real life politics, you see the powers that be trying to split people, that's exactly what they want. They want you split, they want every group split so that way you don't have any type of a unified front.

1:32:35If you can muddle over your arguments, it's so much easier to just do your business in the background. Well, if you can keep the lumpens fighting against each other, you don't have, you know, the aristocracy or the oligarchy doesn't have to worry about, you know, anything happening to them. And I would submit that that's what's happening today. You know, everybody gets involved in these, in this battle between the false paradigms of the Democrats and Republicans and folks. It really doesn't matter, man. I mean, it's just out there so you guys can get entertained. and believe you have a political process when, in fact, you don't. And if you get mad at me for saying that, let me just say this. For any of you who have voted as long as I have, I gotta tell you right now, every four years, whenever you vote, I never saw anything get better, but every four years, it was like this breath of fresh air.

1:33:16Everybody got all pumped up, just like you're seeing now, and the same crap happens, and it gets worse. So take a look back. Are you a bad citizen if you don't vote? I mean, it's up to you. To me, I'm not wasting my time. Whatever pharaoh sits in there is the pharaoh they set there. And my voting and our voting doesn't make a difference because they're coming for us. And I think it's very clear now as we enter into 2008. One thing I wanted to, pertaining directly to that, here's another little quote from, it can't happen here, Doremus Jessup is talking again. Communists, intense and narrow, Yankees, tolerant and shallow. No wonder a dictator can keep us separate and all working for him. There you go.

1:34:01That's it. Now I'm going to throw a quote out to you guys and Shane I'll go to you first. H.G. Wells obviously had a fantastic mind and most of the works that we're aware of are extremely entertaining and extremely prophetic. But there were a couple of books that never seemed to get on the list of what H.G. Wells wrote. One of them was New World Order, which you can read online right in your face as to what a global elite wanted and that was one world rule. also open conspiracy, which is there on the net to read also, which you didn't hear much coming from H.D. Wells. But the other thing about Wells, you have to realize that he was an elite in the sense of he considered most of us useless feeders.

1:34:43He's a nasty old white man who didn't like white people, black people, brown people. He, you know, it was just they're useless feeders. And I want to just read this to you because this is his comment to Francis Galton, who was in favor of selective breeding. That wasn't good enough for Wells. Wells wanted something beyond that, much more draconian. And you can check this out on Galton.org. Wells' comment was chronicled in the American Journal of Sociology, volume 10, July 1904, number one. I'm just going to get to the good stuff, because actually what he does is he stands up and just bitch slaps Francis Galton for not having the chops to go beyond selective breeding. This is from H.G. Wells.

1:35:25The real fact of the case is that an all-around result, the inferior usually perish and the average of the species rises. But not that any exceptionally favorable variations get together and reproduce. I believe that now and always the conscious selection of the best for reproduction will be impossible. That was Galton's view. And he goes on, that to propose it is to display a fundamental misunderstanding of what individuality implies. The way of nature has always been, get ready folks, to slay the hindmost, which means the weakest. and there is still no other way unless we can prevent those who would become the hindmost being born. It is in the sterilization of failures and not in the selection of successes for breeding that the possibility of an improvement of the human stock lies. H.D.

1:36:10Wells was a flat out eugenicist and if you know, there's no other way to say it. George Bernard Shaw in his book, An Intelligent Women's Guide to Socialism in his epilogue said, You know, you shall be forcibly fed, clothed, housed, and worked. And if you did not have the industry for this, you could be executed in a kindly manner. This is what you're dealing with on a level when you get to these elites. And I will tell you right now, there are no more deadly duo than the Clintons. I'm not a Democrat. I'm not a Republican. Bush and his lineage sucked big time too. But this is what you've got. And this is what you better wake up to. Now, that's a very political comment. I understand that. But again, I'm gonna throw it to you, Shane. With regard to H.G.

1:36:53Wells, it's interesting how many of his most, I think, controversial works are never promoted on any kind of reading list. Do you have any particular take on Wells and his vision of the future? To a limited extent. I mean, obviously, the works of his I'm most familiar with are the works that most people are familiar with, the science fiction that he's known for. You kind of call him the father of science fiction and just kind of gloss over the rest. You know, politically correct age, you have to love it. Yeah, so often, I think that tends to be the case, you do see this with authors, where you have these people who seem to have this vision of what's to come, but then there's always that question where you kind of see what the author's really made of.

1:37:38Well, if you have a future coming, there still has to be someone to rule with. And in H.E. Wells' case, I think you see an author who probably thought of himself as being one of those elites who was worthy, of being the top of the gene pool, so to speak. And the eugenics thing, no, it's not a new idea. It's unfortunate. It's travesty in my opinion. A lot of people think that that was only done in Nazi Germany, and that's not the case. It was done here in the United States. And it's one of those things where I think that sense of elitism, I'm born to rule, is, in fact, one of the most dangerous things you can find, whether it's an academic, it's a politician.

1:38:23And, you know, I agree, again, that sense with Hillary is, I just look at her as like there's someone who seems to feel that she's, in my opinion, entitled to rule. She should be ruling. She will do anything to get that platform. Any time you have someone who's willing to do anything again to power, that's someone who probably shouldn't have any.

1:38:46well uh... yeah i mean uh... you know uh... complain for me i mean whoever goes to get to the referral sits there is is is being told what to do and that's why we think we have to look beyond you know the curtain to find out that uh... your politicians have sold themselves out in this nation a long time ago they are run by other interests uh... is always about the money uh... and andy let me give you a shot on that one too if you want well even lewis that if it isn't going to be one buzz wins rep it's going to be another one it's always going to be somebody and i don't think Whoever gets in is going to be subject to those people. They're going to be pulling the strings. Even the Clintons are not the elites.

1:39:27Hillary may present herself, and she looks like she's Queen Elizabeth I about to go to war with the Spanish Armada every time you look at her. But I do think that she's got a certain, it's true, she's got a certain sense of entitlement to it. and it as far as well dot i think that louis with a much more benign writer yes andy he might have dabbled with socialism early on in his life but he sort of dropped it and he went more toward the middle and and basically attack he was he was very very honest and very uh... non you he didn't have any any any particular act to grind with any anybody and and i think that is that's why i think i was told very refreshing it doesn't he'll you know you might attack let's say an elmer gantry goes after the religious right and then he goes after the fascist in this book and then he goes after the babbitt and he goes after the the provincials on main street and then he goes after the communists and uh... in the product prodigal parents and also he does somewhat that can happen here but he does he does have a certain he doesn't he doesn't spare anybody which is which is what's really likable about But Wells did have a sense of elitism, which when he's talking about eugenics, I mean, it's sort of amusing when you remember the fact that he was a diabetic.

1:40:47Yeah, right. Why should he be off? Yeah, and so he's supposed to be the, well, there's a problem there, isn't there? Well, yeah. Look, this is a sidebar thought. I mean, I'm not going to get into it now, but we've done a lot of this on the grassy and all. And that is, look, one of the things about radical environmentalism, and believe me, I would like to be green where it really was about green and not something else, which I think is getting to that point now. But what it comes down to is that all the problems that we face on this planet are insoluble. And you know what it comes down to? Son of a gun, gee whiz, we just got to like cull the population, which is where Will's is going.

1:41:30Now, be that as it may, that's a broad statement, and I can't defend it here, and I'm not gonna defend it just in the time we got. I've done that in past times, I'll do it again. But here's what I wanna throw out to Shane, and this is gonna be an opinion, question to you, which I'm not trying to blindside you, but I just wanna, your first take is the best take. One of the things that we found interesting is that Wells, for being just so vitriolic on top of this thing, was part of a group called the Fabian Socialists in England. London especially seems to be a nexus of power and thought, not the only one by any means.

1:42:09But when you look at books like, I mean, you know, in the Huxleys too, you find this, I think this continuum of, you know, England over to the United States going back, like I said, you know, to Thomas Huxley and his relationship with the Darwin's that goes back, you know, to Erasmus and all that other stuff, which all were involved in, you know, well, you know, we might have to just have the survival of the fittest. But there seems to be somewhat this British-based idea about the way things should be.

1:42:35And given the fact that you read Orwell, who I think was on our side, and Wells, and like we said, Lewis, who's on this side, do you find it interesting that so much of this, it seems to be so much of this literature is basically, as Carol quickly would say, Anglo-American written. In other words, both UK and US. Any thoughts on that? I haven't thought about it in those terms before. I think it makes sense that if there is a strong British influence with this type of literature, that that would cross over to America. Obviously, with the revolution, we would probably have more direct ties to that European country than any other culturally.

1:43:17I think part of it can also be a partial explanation of history. I mean, when you have some of the, I mean, the original printing presses coming out, You had Britain at its height as the British Empire about to defeat off Spain, and then in America you had kind of this arrival of the middle class start showing up. And so to some extent you could argue that culturally that might have been part of the effect of it, that every other culture may very well have these same type of works, but we're simply just not familiar with them, or they have yet to fully develop.

1:43:52yet but a lot of images on the him with a roof more refined version of that i i probably was too general and that goes right over to you no problem all right how about if i said this that's still very much entrenched uh... in the u k and this is among the leaders in the people of people we were always talk about government we're talking about you know some nefarious doing sort of a certain country you know dating back to the british east indies company in the first waivers and such that there is an elitist rain in in the u k which is very strong uh... Do you find that that was, and here's where I'm going with that, do you find that strain being in there, in the literature about, you know what, in fact, Cecil Rhodes said, you know, it's the white man's burden to rule the world. That's where that came from.

1:44:34So that's where I would throw to you is, and that is, do you see there's this throwback to monarchial or royal elitism about, you know, let the presidency kick? I think from that style there can be, and the next part could be simply a question of power. I mean, you know, there are many people where you have the thought, You know, the old quote, you know, power corrupts, absolute power corrupts, absolutely. And you can look at it as, well, who had the power in modern history? Well, Britain could defeat Spain and conquer, you know, some of the indigenous people in the New World. You know, the US, militarily unmatched. And so I think there is kind of this background, not even sure if it's conscious or subconscious, but you have this feeling, well, we could rule the world. We could be the strongest nation on earth.

1:45:18We could take on anyone we want to take on. So I said that does breed kind of a degree of maybe arrogance, snobbery. And to some extent, I mean, with the US, it's very, I mean, whether you like this war or not, the US history is very imperialist. There is no arguing with that if you look at the facts. We like to expand and we like to do it with a gun and a bayonet or a Tomahawk cruise missile, whichever is in vogue at the time. But I think to some extent in the background, a lot of it comes to the, well, we have the military, we can.

1:45:52And I've even discussed this with friends that it seems odd that when we have such a large standing military, once in a while you almost get this odd feeling looking at the world that once in a while we pick a fight just because it's been so long since we've gone to war, you know, and it'd be a waste not to use them. And that sounds ridiculous. When you think about and kind of look, it just seems like every so many years, if we're not engaged somewhere, we find an excuse to go use the military.

1:46:20all right i'll put the way to get there there's there's a lot of truth that i think that's the average we have we we could we i guess we just that's like we're itching for a fight it's like uh... uh... like anything else if you don't do it off of it you know you have to go out about time we uh... we did that again let's go let's go invade this country uh... first for some reason uh... what uh... yeah that that happens a lot well regarding the the the uh... at the aspect of of other countries i have a book that i i guess i have a couple of versions of it uh... called we by eugenia's army out which was a at this opium novel actually along the almost along the lines of orwell which was written in nineteen twenty six and any dot me out and was a with a soviet writer image to get this thing uh... without being killed before he finished that i guess and and it's well-known actually and it was in paperback a lot and it was actually came out here in the fifties and i think it was re-translated uh... not too long ago but it was a big it was a big uh... a big novel basically along the lines of nineteen eighty-four and essentially has a lot of the same element and i think there was a tradition in other countries of of of certain novel of course you know i'm rand came from russia and was you know that got a uh... and i got a big uh... spoonful of all the all the stuff that was going on over there and came over here and started to write novel about about totalitarianism.

1:47:50Right. It made a whole philosophy on it and, uh, and it dominated her whole life, essentially. I, um, I want to mention something, but I don't think it's fair for me. And I would wind up monopolizing the conversation about what I want to ask, you know, you guys and the listeners to go to, um, because there is a very interesting connection between the characters in the city of London, not London, the city of London at the beginning of the 20th century. and what we're seeing now. If that's provocative, good. And I think maybe I'll try to do this in one of my rants that might accompany the show. But be that as it may, let me throw something over to you, Shane, first. You remember the movie Thunderdome? Yes, I do.

1:48:35You remember Master Blaster? Yep. All right. What I find interesting about this is, first of all, we're talking about science fiction books and how not fictitious they are. Predictive programming I used in a sense in a bit of a corrupted way. Predictive programming means you're being fed this stuff to get used to something that's probably not real palatable, all right? And that happens a lot now in movies. I think the case in what we're talking about now with the written word, this was giving us a warning and not necessarily saying, you know, you can accept this. There may be. I think the predictive programming element is greater in electronic media.

1:49:17I think a certain warning, and I think Orwell was obviously on the cutting edge of this, instead of saying, get used to it. But here's what I would posit to you, and I'm going to throw it to Andy. If you remember Master Blaster, obviously you had the brute, and you had the midget that was controlling the brute. There was a time, and especially after, Britain got bloodied pretty badly in the Boer War, when Rhodes said, you know, we've got to bring the US into tow to the crown and have them fight the battles that our best blood can't any longer. At Cecil Rhodes, you can read about him in Carol Quigley's The Anglo-American Establishment and Tragedy and Hope. It's not the whole story, but it's part of the story. Would it be possible, and how do you feel about this?

1:49:56And did you ever come across any of this information, by the way, Shane, where it was, you know, the UK never let us go. We just thought we were free. We had a really good life. But that they availed themselves of our military after the Boer War so that when they needed help with World War I and World War II, they just whistled. What about that allegory? Can you see any validity in that? To an extent. I'd have to do more historical study before I said a solid yes or no or otherwise. Okay. But it's definitely, I mean, the relationships definitely at some point, the US and Britain started being buddies and we're not quite sure why. And suddenly we're in World War I. Well, that's kind of odd considering our country's histories with each other leading up to that point.

1:50:39And I mean, it would go in parallel with how countries, especially empires who find themselves fading, fall. I mean, you always need the big brute. You look at the role that Scottish soldiers played in keeping up the British Empire. And yeah, I'm a little bit biased because I come from a proud Scottish family and everything, but, you know, the British Empire doesn't exist without all their Scottish regiments. I mean, they were there in the Crimea, they were there in India, they were there on the continent, they were there in America and you know you had these big groups who you didn't have to pay a lot who fought like crazy because they knew how to do it and meanwhile your better soldiers got to sit back.

1:51:17But Shane you know you make a good point though but but does it not look like yes that the Scots were tapped because they were the better fighters? Exactly yeah. Okay and of course anybody who lives behind a wall and guys who wear skirts I'm not messing with them.

1:51:36and i think that's why rome just said uh... there on the other side of a dreams wall let them alone on their first when they were weren't first they love to run an attack naked and they just don't want anything to do with that but i don't know what they want they are due and i'm not kidding uh... uh... great for it is a great movie about that too i think but anyway andy uh... there's also also some of that in train spotting okay but i think i just don't know you told people about for no reason Wham! Whether it's professional or for fun, there's a lot of that going on. All right. Well, I'm throwing it over to you with regard to that allegory of Master Blaster, Midget UK, Dumbhead Brute US.

1:52:22Yeah. Yes, of course. And I think from World War I, of course, it took us a while to get in there. As a matter of fact, there was a huge peace movement in this country Irving Berlin wrote an anti-war song, which he later disavowed, called Stay Down Here Where You Belong, where he tells the devil not to go up to the world because the people are all fighting up there. And it's actually better in hell. This was during World War I. And then we had the Lusitania, which was, of course, a false flag city. But again, I see so many things with regard to that. Mencken at the time was writing, about how the British basically were able to put all this stuff out about the Germans boiling Belgian babies and things in Poisonous Wells and everything, throwing the babies up on bayonets.

1:53:16It's all basically really melodramatic stuff, but it all came from the Foreign Office in Britain, sure. It was all propaganda. And it essentially was one of those things. And then you got people whipped up. But it took us three years to get over there. It took us till not till 17, 1917, where we actually, but people were being totally amped up to get into this thing after Lusitania. And also after Wilson was elected on the platform of, we'll keep us out of the war. Yes. And believe me, I have a lot of old sheet music and it shows, it's amazing the propaganda existed.

1:53:59So in every level of life you had liberty cabbage. And now of course nothing like freedom fries at all. But this is crazy. But again that happened again in World War II to a great extent also. Probably the last question for you Shane. With regard to Orwell, we've not really talked in depth about what you thought about him. I think he's multifaceted and somebody who also changed for the decades and was trying to be more of a friend to us than saying this is the real good thing. But that's my take.

1:54:38What do you think about Orwell and obviously the salient work in 1984 and anything else animal form or whatever? I have a strong respect for Orwell and part for what you mentioned is a lot of writers they seem to have the same relative political stance or thought even over decades. And Orwell, you can see the adaptation. You can see the nuancing of his thoughts and ideas. He spent more time studying. He spent more time seeing the world. And to that extent, I mean, Orwell, out of the dystopian authors, you know, cheeks blushing red, ashamed to admit that he's probably the one I know the least about. So I can't go much in depth beyond that, except from what I've read.

1:55:21I did appreciate the fact that you could tell that his thinking never stopped. He never got into this on completely right, 100% every detail. He kept looking, he kept thinking, he kept nuance. And you have to respect that. Without a doubt. And like, and then that there bears out what I said. I mean, he, he was not the same person through the decades. I mean, he changed from the time when he was fighting in the Spanish civil war to the time he was writing propaganda as he admitted for BBC. And then he goes off to, uh, His Isolated Island writes 1984 and then dies. I'm not saying there's anything nefarious there. I'm just wondering if you knew his time was up and he had to get that out. I'll tell you why. It's a credit.

1:56:00Folks, if you can read 1984, please read it not as a satire, not as a condemning piece, but he's telling us this is what's happening to you. I'm going to throw it to you, and I want to go back and touch upon your websites, both of you guys. But Andy, again, you get last shot on Orwell. Orwell, I read him in junior high school and my admiration for him has never ceased. That's why I've always been part of my skepticism. It's really a fundamental part of my mental equipment, having read Orwell at a young age. It does help you see through a lot of stuff that's going on.

1:56:40It's really good to have that in stock as you go through life, to have read certain things to have read Orwell and to have read some of Lewis's better books like It Can't Happen. It was a wonderful, absolutely wonderful book. And to read Huxley as perhaps an anti-tonic, you could say, but it's all worth imbibing this stuff and then processing it in a good dose of Ayn Rand and Mencken And all you, you know, read as many different people as you can, but you really tend to gravitate toward those good ones like Orwell. Yeah.

1:57:23And I had talked to Shane about the book that I read excerpts from by Ian Slater called Orwell, The Road to Airstrip One, which I think he did a great job of just not making decisions about him, just breaking it down as to what, you know, and a lot of great, you know, notes that Orwell wrote. And anyway, I think he's been probably misunderstood to a certain extent. And I think it bears out looking back at what he did. Hey, Shane, I want to say thank you, first of all, for coming on. And thank you for responding so quickly and willingly to come on the show. Because yeah, you do get it. And of course, you and I had nothing to do with each other. But it's another. Actually, this came from a listener. I've got to be honest with you. CB sent me your stuff.

1:58:06It might have been, gee, I don't even know how long ago. And I went revisiting it. And I said, you know what? Yeah, this is good. there's a reason why I contacted you, and so there are people out there that are watching. Not that this is necessarily the crux of all that you do, but again, would you get the website where people can read about the work that you've done, and even something like this, which I thought was a great breakdown of Lewis's book? Sure, yeah. You just want to go to Squidoo, S-Q-U-I-T-O-O.com. And then from there, you just, What's up, Monty? M-O-N-T-E-A-T-H. And those will be the sites.

1:58:48Um, the audio's a little hot on that, so you may not have heard it, but I will post those links on my website. Andy, I wouldn't even try, because we're going to get drowned out. I'll see you folks... Google Eureka! Google Eureka! Yeah, the phone was chosen by Andy Eureka. Thank you both. We'll talk later. Bye-bye. Thank you. The. The the the the the the the the the the the the Block talk radio.